Yes, the debate centring on urbanity in The National's music is interesting, albeit something of a red salmon.
 
 
Firstly, any perspective is valid if expressed interestingly - except any that contradict this one. Sure, I'm an urbanite, leaving Leeds because it wasn't urban enough - but doesn't mean that the National's critique of urbanity is lost somewhere in the moribund maze atop my shoulders. Thus, I part company with Thomas.
 
 
The limitation of The National's repetition is what wears me down. In the 90s I became fascinated by early Talking Heads songs embracing basic architecture and town-planning as a kind of art form - only to contradict this sentiment with “The Big Country” (“I wouldn’t live there if you paid me too”). The dual perspective was endearing and ambitious.
 
I don't feel The National have this complexity, at all - though I’m certainly no expert on their lyrical scope.
 
This brings me back the to the Tindersticks link: I've been listening to them again today for the first time in a few years (was a massive fan faced with their opening smattering of records in the early/mid nineties), and reminded myself of "City Sickness", which deals with the urbanity-alienation ****, but sits on a record flanked by entirely disparate themes. Yes, I challenge Grouchland to a perverted Pepsi, erm, Challenge - listen to a National record (any one of the ****s) and then the Tindersticks’ debut straight afterwards, and then tell me that the former are better. I dare yeh.
 
 
Regarding Arcade Fire, I think there's a distinct disparity between "Funeral" and post-Funeral. "Funeral"'s relationship with its landscape is much more complex than alienation – love, familial bonds and sentimentalism  mingle with bitter frustration and despair. It's a complex, eclectic record - even if it doesn't quite match the hyperbole it received. Nico's recent accusation of pomposity vexed me slightly. Who cares if they're pompous; who could be more pompous than Morrissey – who he reveres? Quality is all that matters. I've little interest in the new record, but will give a go when it rolls onto Spotify.  
 
 
I've done with yeh. Can’t be bothered to pose a proper argument.
 

really have no idea what mr mookachoo is on about;
have tried and failed at listening to the national, to me they sound as though they use the same chords as countless other groups. and as to the lyrical content...well i did not listen that closely tbh.
but what i find really hard to handle, is that they share members with the utterly sublime group, clogs...clogs are so great, mint, well smart, clogs make really cool and subtle instrumental music, which sounds like no one else but clogs...the national, however just sound like another group.
of course my musical palette is well jaded, and all i really like to listen to these days is  1950's doo-wop...so what do i know

I have to say, the forum is on absolute peak form at the moment, even without Offical Most Popular forumer Maddix85 posting much. Must be because hoppo is refreshed after his holidays.

City Sickness is amazing and Moochoo is correct about the majesty of the first couple of Tindersticks records. He is characteristically slightly churlish about The National, I would suggest. It's not their fault that they've become popular. I'm on record myself as not quite getting the hysteria and asking for clarification, which never really came, about the apparent self-pity in their lyrics, which I find off putting at times. I also think the new record sounds pretty different, in the music and that, to the last one.

Calling Arcade Fire pompous was pretty lazy; it's the kind of thing that someone who just doesn't like something says to prick the bubble. Like saying something all sounds the same (or something, like). I've nothing against groups taking on big subjects and lots of my favourite groups over the years have done that and done it on a big scale: Manics, Suede, British Sea Power, Newton Faulkner. I guess I just find AF overwhelming and don't really see what the fuss is about.  

Of course, self pity and pomposity bring us on to Morrissey. I don't want to drag the thread off topic, but I guess the difference is levity, intrigue and masses of charisma. Oh, and more than two ideas.

Is anyone else saddened that Tyondai Braxton has left Battles?  Could this be the end of the band we know and love?
 

Probably a good thing if it means she records something more like Unbreak my heart next time.

Is anyone else saddened that Tyondai Braxton has left Battles?

well hopefully, he has gone and joined his dads group, and started playing some real music.

hoppo

moz


There is a taxi service round our way called Raffles.

was there not a deep fried potato type snack of the same name

when you going to collate this grouchers

i think your thinking of ruffles. Or Frazzles.

Thanks to combining my cd/record collection, i/we own all of the top 20. Do i get a prize?

BTW, i thought the list was alright. Obviously, im disappointed that STILL no one recognises the genius that was Six By Seven....and the obligitary beatles got in there. AND the bloody strokes?!?!?!?!? that is shocking.....

I also feel (as he lights the fuse & stands WELL back...) that the only reason that The National are in the top 20 is coz they are 'flavour of the moment' and wouldnt be there in, say, a few years time....

But, yr know. I think the list is alright. Well done everyone. Give yourselves a bonus Caramac for being cool :)

Has Thomas been doing Hollyoaks Top Fan all this time, just to tee himself up for a gag?

as someone that put boxer at all time no 4, i should probably try and justify that (a bit).
firstly, a caveat. i selected a top ten really, and precise placement wasnt a priority.
still i said it was top ten. so why, apart from the valid point made above that they are verrrry current?
 
for me, not all music has to be fundamentally challenging (see rest of my list!), and the national give me a massive emotional comfort blanket.
however they also have sufficient passion (witness views on their live performances), music quality (look what the dessners do elsewhere) and intellectual effort that they can easily pass my personal "artistic credibility" test. i can listen up, or listen down and in particular there is sufficient ambiguity
in the lyrics to keep me hooked and interested. is he talking politics in fake empire, is he being self deprecating about their music in apartment story?
likely my thoughts are the same as grouchland's clever phrase "..anthems for those trapped in the mundanity of urban life" which thomas seemed to argue to modify (i think) to simply "..for those trapped in mundanity".
 
[^ on reflection this is quite a seriously written post. i'll post a joke next week to counter the effect, but havent got time to create a new poster to play the straight guy]

Damaris, cos i rate yr taste so highly, I downloaded meself  Slow Riot for New Zerø Kanada

moz


I also feel (as he lights the fuse & stands WELL back...) that the only reason that The National are in the top 20 is coz they are 'flavour of the moment' and wouldnt be there in, say, a few years time....

I take your point about them being in the now, but I also feel that The National have a longevity about them that can only be built up by slow a consistent building of their fanbase.
 
For me, I would consider both The National and Arcade Fire among my favourite bands, but ironically didn't put either band in my top ten albums.
 
The reason essentially being that for a band to be a favourite, I take a range of aspects into account:  their back catalougue, live performances, what they are doing now/new releases, wheras for an album to feature highly in my all-time top albums it needs time to mature and prove its enduring worth to me.
So, to go back to Moz's point, I can see myself considering Alligator as a potential top ten album in the future as and when I review my favourites.  As it stands the youngest album in my list is 2002's () by Sigur Ros.
 
P.S. For those in doubt, Arcade Fire's "The Suburbs" is definitely worth checking out.  It is a completely different beast to either of the first two.  A dark, sprawling mass of work that, given time, begins to infuse into the consciousness.  It is certainly not as immediate as the other albums, but there are moments of the anthemic qualities of their earlier work, such as the central pillars of "Half Light I" and "Half Light II (No Celebration).

Rancid - And out come the wolves
Biffy Clyro - Puzzle
Gaslight Anthem - '59 Sound
The Clash - London Calling
Fleetwood Mac - Rumours
Jimmy Eat World - Clarity

WUBU2, M8?

Hello folks. Are all you ****s still around even though the festival has long since been and gone? I've been away for a bit and don't know if much happens on here these days. Anyhow trolling back a bit I found grouchy's FRED and through I'd stick my twopenneth worth in. Not nececelery in order:
 
 1) The National - High Violet
 2) Godspeed You Black Emperor - Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas To Heaven
 3) The Twilight Singers - Powder Burns
 4) Mogwai - Happy Songs For Happy People
 5) The Afghan Whigs - Black Love
 6) Nick Cave - Let Love In
 7) The National - Alligator
 8) Leatherface - Mush
 9) Head - Tales Of Ordinary Madness
 10) The Only Ones - Even Serpents Shine
 
I've had big love affairs wi' Joy Division, The Smiths, Bunnymen, Pixies, XTC, The Jam, New Order, Husker Du and stuff like that over the years, but nowt by any of them make the cut as I don't listen to them any more.

A bit of Post-Rock and Baritone vocals then langs?

A bit of owt that sounds thoroughly miserable really young man.